NBA Draft '11, lockout y demás perogrulladas.

Mystee #1 Jun '11 No quiero ser mod

Una vez acabada la post-season con la primera victoria de Dallas Mavericks, la NBA no descansa, a decir verdad, nunca nunca descansa.

NBA Draft 2011

El draft 2011 tendrá lugar en el Prudential Center, Newark, New Jersey, el hogar esta temporada de los New Jersey Nets.

La lottery habló y dejó a Cleveland Cavaliers como el equipo más beneficiado al conseguir el pick 1 (ronda procedente de LA Clippers) y el pick 4, su propia ronda, Minnesota Timberwolves que llegaba con las mayores posibilidades a la lottery se tuvo que conformar con un pick 2, y Utah con un pick 3(ronda procedente de NJ Nets)

Para el que no sepa que es el draft, es la principal manera de los jugadores universitarios de jugar en la NBA, 2 rondas, 30 picks cada ronda, en orden descendente, desde el peor record hasta el mejor.
Los 14 equipos que no se han clasificado para playoffs, tienen la oportunidad de conseguir el pick 1, los porcentajes son éstos.

250 combinations, 25.0% chance of receiving the #1 pick
199 combinations, 19.9% chance
156 combinations, 15.6% chance
119 combinations, 11.9% chance
88 combinations, 8.8% chance
63 combinations, 6.3% chance
43 combinations, 4.3% chance
28 combinations, 2.8% chance
17 combinations, 1.7% chance
11 combinations, 1.1% chance
8 combinations, 0.8% chance
7 combinations, 0.7% chance
6 combinations, 0.6% chance
5 combinations, 0.5% chance

Con los trades las rondas son un elemento muy valioso, tanto o más que los jugadores, así que os dejo un compendio con las rondas traspasadas de cada equipo y que les deja.

2011 outstanding trades.

Bobcats receive the Hornets' 2011 first-round pick, via Blazers (Jerryd Bayless trade) (top 7 protected in 2011, top 8 protected in 2012, 2013, and 2014. If pick is not conveyed by 2014, the Bobcats will instead receive the Hornets' 2015 and 2016 second-round picks) (Gerald Wallace trade 02-24-11)

Bulls receive the Heat's 2011 first-round pick, via Raptors (Chris Bosh trade) (top 14 protected in 2011, if the Heat's own 2011 first-round pick is in top 14, the Heat will instead send cash to the Raptors) (James Johnson trade 02-22-11)

Cavaliers receive the Clippers' 2011 first-round pick (Baron Davis trade 02-23-11)

Clippers receive the T'Wolves 2011 first-round pick (top 10 protected in 2011, unproteced in 2012) (Marko Jaric trade 08-12-05)

Jazz receive the Nets' 2011 first-round pick (Deron Williams trade 02-24-11)

Nets receive the Lakers' 2011 first-round pick (top 18 protected in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016, unprotected in 2017) (Sasha Vujacic trade 12-15-10)

Rockets have option to swap 2011 first-round picks with the Knicks (top 1 protected) (Tracy McGrady trade 02-18-10)

T'Wolves receive the Grizzlies' 2011 first-round pick, via the Jazz (Ronnie Brewer trade) (top 14 protected in 2011, top 12 protected in 2012, top 10 protected in 2013, top 9 protected in 2014 and 2015, if pick is not conveyed to the T'Wolves by 2015, the T'Wolves will instead receive cash considerations from the Grizzlies) (Al Jefferson trade 07-13-10)

T'Wolves receive the Jazz's 2011 first-round pick (top 16 protected in 2011, top 14 protected in 2012, top 16 protected in 2013, in 2014 the T'Wolves have the option to swap with the Jazz, top 9 protected, if the pick is not conveyed to the T'Wolves by 2013 and also does not swap 2014 first-round picks with the Jazz, then the T'Wolves will instead receive the Jazz?s own 2014 second-round pick) (Al Jefferson trade 07-13-2010)

Suns receive Orlando Magic 2011 first round pick (Jason Richardson trade 12-18-10)

Rockets receive the Suns's 2011 first-round pick (Lottery protected in 2011, under this circumstance the Rockets will instead receive the Suns' acquired 2011 first-round pick via the Magic) (Aaron Brooks trade 02-24-11)

Wizards receive the Hawks' 2011 first-round pick (Kirk Hinrich trade 02-23-11)
2011 Second Round

Blazers have option to swap 2011 second-round picks with the Nuggets, or can wait and switch in 2012 (For assistant coach Tim Grgurich 10-04-05)

Bucks receive the Bulls' 2011 second-round pick (John Salmons trade 02-18-10)

Bulls receive the Jazz's 2011 second-round pick (conditions currently unknown) (Carlos Boozer 07-08-10)

Bulls receive the Suns' 2011 second-round pick (Hakim Warrick trade 07-09-10)

Cavs receive the Thunders' 2011 second-round pick, via Heat (Latavious Williams trade) (top 40 protected in 2011 and 2012, unprotected in 2013) (LeBron James trade 07-09-10)

Clippers receive the Pistons' 2011 second-round pick (Alex Acker trade 02-16-09)

Heat receive the T'Wolves' 2011 second-round pick (Michael Beasley trade 07-12-10)

Hornets have option to swap 2011 second-round picks with the 76ers (Craig Brackins trade 09-23-10)

Bucks have option to send their own 2011 second-round pick to the Kings, or send the 2011 second-round pick acquired from the Bulls to the Kings (John Salmons trade) (Jon Brockman trade 07-21-10)

Lakers receive the Knicks' 2011 second-round pick (Toney Douglas trade 06-25-09)

Lakers receive the Heats' 2011 second-round pick (Patrick Beverly trade 06-25-09)

Lakers receive the Warriors' 2011 second-round pick, via Nets (Marcus Williams trade) (Sasha Vujacic trade 12-15-10)

Pistons receive the Nuggets' 2011 second-round pick (after the Blazers decided to swap with the Nuggets) (Arron Afflalo trade 07-13-09)

Pistons receive the Raptors' 2011 second-round pick (Carlos Delfino trade 06-15-07)

Rockets have option to swap 2011 second-round picks with the Clippers (Steve Novak trade 08-06-09)

Rockets receive the Grizzlies' 2011 second-round pick (top 55 protected) (Steve Francis trade 12-23-08)

Rockets receive the Kings' 2011 second-round pick (top 55 protected) (Jermaine Taylor trade 12-15-10)

Warriors receive the Nets' 2011 second-round pick (top 55 protected) (Anthony Morrow trade 07-13-10)

Warriors will receive the less favorbale of 2011 second-round picks from the Bulls (via the Suns or via the Jazz) (CJ Watson trade 07-22-10)

Lo que nos deja con este orden y estas rondas pertenecientes a cada equipo:

Primera ronda.

1-Cleveland(From LA Clippers)
2-Minnesota
3-Utah(From New Jersey)
4-Cleveland
5-Toronto
6-Washington
7-Sacramento
8-Detroit
9-Charlotte
10-Milwaukee
11-Golden State
12-Utah
13-Phoenix
14-Houston
15-Indiana
16-Philadelphia
17-New York
18-Washington(from Atlanta)
19-Charlotte(from New Orleans via Portland)
20-Minnesota(from Memphis via Utah)
21-Portland
22-Denver
23-Houston(from Orlando via Phoenix)
24-Oklahoma
25-Boston
26-Dallas
27-New Jersey(from L.A. Lakers)
28-Chicago(from Miami via Toronto)
29-San Antonio
30-Chicago

Segunda ronda.

31-Miami Heat (from Minnesota)
32-Cleveland Cavaliers
33-Detroit Pistons (from Toronto)
34-Washington Wizards
35-Sacramento Kings
36-New Jersey Nets
37-Los Angeles Clippers (from Detroit)
38-Houston Rockets (from L.A. Clippers)
39-Charlotte Bobcats
40-Milwaukee Bucks
41-Los Angeles Lakers (from Golden State via New Jersey)
42-Indiana Pacers
43-Chicago Bulls (from Utah)
44-Golden State Warriors (from Phoenix)
45-New Orleans Hornets (from Philadelphia)
46-Los Angeles Lakers (from New York)
47-Los Angeles Clippers (from Houston)
48-Atlanta Hawks
49-Memphis Grizzlies
50-Philadelphia 76ers (from New Orleans)
51-Portland Trail Blazers
52-Detroit Pistons (from Denver Nuggets)
53-Orlando Magic
54-Cleveland Cavaliers (from Oklahoma City via Miami)
55-Boston Celtics
56-Los Angeles Lakers
57-Dallas Mavericks
58-Los Angeles Lakers (from Miami)
59-San Antonio Spurs
60-Sacramento Kings (from Chicago via Milwaukee)

Cabe destacar que en este draft no se tienen muchas esperanzas de cara al futuro, es el draft con menos calidad desde el del año 2000 que junto con el de 1986 son de los peores de la historia, la causa de la poca calidad es el lockout, salvo los seniors que obligatoriamente son elegibles, muchos jugadores han dicho que no por temor a estar un tiempo sin jugar.

Collective Bargaining Agreement y el lockout

Llegamos al meollo de todo, el cierre patronal que es el lockout, por simplificarlo, en el año 1999, se firmó el actual CBA, todos los sueldos máximos, mínimos, salary cap, lo que hay que pagar si te pasas del límite, el sueldo que percibe cada jugador de lottery, las excepciones salariales, todo está ahí, todo se firmó aunque a un precio para los aficionados, perdernos más de dos meses de competición y la cancelación del All-Star.

El día 30 de Junio salvo un milagro de un calibre descomunal, la NBA cerrará, echará la verja y a saber cuando se sube, que significa ésto para el aficionado? la cancelación de la Summer League, los Training Camps de momento también, y la incógnita de no saber cuando habrá NBA de nuevo, si se mira los lockouts de las majors en USA, hace pocos años la NHL no se disputó, una temporada entera sin disputarse, y yo al menos no sobrevivo si pasa eso.

Respecto al CBA, los dueños quieren pagar menos, tener menos pérdidas y como consecuente reducir mucho los gastos, los jugadores obviamente quieren seguir cobrando lo que cobran.

Salvo que alguien lo tenga en castellano, creo que todos somos capaces de entenderlo en inglés, así que a grandes rasgos aquí dejo que están negociando y que están "negociando".

spoiler

The Salary Cap

What you need to know: The owners' initial proposal, according to reports, called for a "hard" cap, which sets a fixed figure on team salaries that cannot be exceeded. Players favor a softer cap, which includes several exceptions (see glossary, and below).
Bottom line: An insistence on a hard cap could be the major sticking point in these negotiations. The union flat-out doesn't want one. The league says it has to have one, though some outsiders suggest that owners would be willing to discuss a cap with fewer exceptions than the current one.

Salary Cap Exceptions

What you need to know: Both sides favor the ability to create a system that would help teams to keep their own free agents. A logical way to do that is with exceptions to the cap. A new agreement could bring new exceptions, such as the "franchise" tag that's used in the NFL. An enhancement of Bird rights (see Glossary) is another possibility. "Amnesty" provisions could be reinstated to allow teams tax relief for current contracts, too.

Bottom line: Despite the owners' insistence, an NBA with a "true" hard cap, one without any exceptions, will be hard to come by given the union's stringent resistance to the idea.

Basketbal Related Income

What you need to know: Players get 57 percent of all Basketball Related Income (see Glossary) in the current agreement. That percentage, along with what constitutes BRI, is going to be hotly negotiated.
Bottom line: The league not only wants to scale back the percentage of BRI the players receive -- from 57 percent to about 41 -- it wants to narrow what revenue is considered as part of BRI. The union, predictably, wants to keep the percentage at or near where it is now, and possibly include revenue streams that are currently not considered basketball-related.

Salary Rollbacks
What you need to know: Across-the-board salary rollbacks -- in effect, changing the terms of existing contracts -- are a possibility. The NHL bargained for a 24-percent rollback on all existing salaries after its 2005 lockout. Such a move in the NBA could impact all current contracts.
Bottom line: The union and its rank-and-file would fight against restructuring existing contracts.

Revenue Sharing

What you need to know: Owners are in agreement on the need for increased revenue sharing among teams. Currently, about $54 million is divvied up. The league's position is that better revenue sharing will help teams compete and give them a reasonable expectation of being profitable.

Bottom line: This would seem to be a mostly owner-controlled issue, but players must agree to any revenue-sharing plan and will have a say on what monies are to be considered for the revenue-sharing pot. The union wants healthy teams, too -- financially and on-the-court competitively -- because that means more job security for players and, theoretically, better wages.

Guaranteed Contracts

What you need to know: Owners reportedly favor a system that would allow them to cut their losses on so-called "bad" contracts for underperforming players. That could mean shorter-term contracts and less guaranteed money.

Bottom line: Guaranteed contracts have been a staple in the NBA for years. The union isn't going to give up what they have without a fight.

Contraction

What you need to know: Stern has said that the idea of eliminating at least a couple of teams in order to enhance the league's bottom line -- and its on-court product -- is on the table.

Bottom line: Contraction remains a longshot for a few reasons. One, there's a question as to whether any teams, even those losing money, would be willing to sell. Two, other cities may be willing to take on a struggling NBA franchise, so many argue that relocation should be considered before contraction. And, of course, cutting teams would mean fewer jobs for players. That's something the union would fight.

BASKETBALL RELATED INCOME

Generally, income received as a result of basketball operations. The sources include broadcast rights, gate receipts, sponsorships, proceeds from NBA properties, percentage of arena naming rights, suite proceeds, concessions, merchandise sales, etc.
Players are guaranteed 57 percent of BRI in the current agreement. The BRI figure for last season was approximately $3.6 billion, with players guaranteed nearly $2.1 billion in salary and benefits.

LUXURY TAX

An amount levied on teams that exceed the salary cap. The luxury tax level for this season is $70.307 million. Teams whose player payroll exceeds that figure will pay a dollar-for-dollar tax. For example: A team with a payroll of $75.307 million pays $5 million in luxury tax.
The luxury tax is split evenly among the teams that do not pay the tax. Each gets 1/30th of the pot. The remaining money is controlled and used at the NBA's discretion.

SALARY CAP

The limit teams can spend on salaries. The salary cap for 2010-11 is $58.044 million, an increase from $57.7 million last season. It's calculated by multiplying projected Basketball Related Income (see above) by 51 percent, subtracting player benefits and then dividing the result by 30 (the number of teams in the league). The minimum team salary, by the way, is set at 75 percent of the salary cap. This season, that equals $43.533 million.
The league wants a "hard" cap, which would strictly disallow teams from exceeding a calculated payroll limit. The league's current salary cap can only be described as "soft," because it includes several methods that teams can go over the cap (see Salary Cap Exceptions).

SALARY CAP EXCEPTIONS

Rules that allow teams to exceed the cap if the player meets certain criteria. Here are some of the current exceptions:

Qualifying Veteran Free Agent (Bird Exception): Used for a free agent, eligible for up to the maximum salary, if he played for that team for some or the entire prior three seasons, or if he changed teams by trade.

Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agent (Early Bird): Used for a free agent eligible for a salary of up to the greater of (a) 175 percent of the player's salary in the last season of his prior contract or (b) 108 percent of the average player salary for the prior season. The player had to play for the team for some or the entire prior two seasons, or changed teams by trade.

Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agent (Non-Bird): Used for a free agent who is neither a "Bird" nor an "Early Bird" player. He can sign up to (a) 120 percent of the player's salary in the last season of his prior contract, (b) 120 percent of the player's applicable minimum salary for the current season or, (c) if the player is a Restricted Free Agent, his Qualifying Offer amount.

Bi-Annual: Can be used to sign one or more players to contracts with first-year salaries totalling up to $2.08 million for 2010-11. Can be used only every other year.

Mid-Level Salary: Can be used to sign one or more players to contracts with first-year salaries that provide for a total of up to 108 percent of the average player salary for the prior season. Set at $5.765 million for 2010-11. Can be used every year.

Rookie: Teams may sign their first-round Draft picks for up to 120 percent of the Rookie Salary Scale amount, as negotiated in the CBA.

Minimum Salary: Teams may sign a player to a one-year or two-year contract at the applicable minimum salary determined by years of service.

Disabled Player: Teams may replace a player who suffers a season-ending injury with one player making up to 50 percent of the injured player's current salary.

Traded Player: If a team trades a player's contract to another team, that team can replace the traded player with one or more players acquired by trade. Teams have up to one year to complete transaction to comply to the Salary Cap rules.

OTHER POINTS OF INTEREST
In the current CBA, the maximum length on contracts between a team and its Bird free agents, or between a team that is extending rookie contracts, is six years. For the minimum salary exception or bi-annual exception, it's two years. Rookie contracts are two years, plus two one-year team options. All other contracts, including extensions, can be as long as five years.
The maximum player salary, per year, is based on a player's years of service and a percentage of the salary cap. For players with fewer than seven years of experience, the maximum salary is now $13,603,750. Between 7-10 years, $16,324,500. Ten or more years, $19,045,250.
The current agreement has an allowance for a player's annual salary to either increase or decrease, as negotiated on the contract's signing. Contracts with Bird or Early Bird players can be negotiated to be increased or decreased after the first year by up to 10.5 percent of first-year salary. For all other contracts, it's 8 percent in both directions.

Creo que no se me olvida nada, salvo pediros que no discutáis siempre lo mismo, ya cansa y ya sabemos que piensa cada uno respecto a los temas bucle de siempre.

12

GriLLo #2 Jun '11

Nice work!

futurman #3 Jun '11

¿Que jugadores universitarios no estan en la lotery por miedo? (jugadores buenos, sen entiende)

pd: Post curradisimo, grax.

tokeh #4 Jun '11

Yea!

Ojito al proyecto de los Cavs! La temporada que viene a PO para enfrentarse -y eliminar- a Miami en primera ronda para júbilo (y posteriores pajas de sangre) de Dan Gilbert xDD

B4rrakus #5 Jun '11

Según algunos expertos esperan que haya lockout pero hasta Diciembre, espero que así sea y que regalen toda la temporada de League Pass por las molestias xDDDDD

PD: No sale el me gusta del Facebook ni de Twitter pues se lo doy al post jajaja

JamesDuke #6 Jun '11

es el primer año que sigo el draft, y aun con lockout parece un sistema muy entretenido

PD: menudos picks tiene lal, 41, 46, 56 y 58 :S

MrKonarski #7 Jun '11

David Alridge con su morning tip hablando de las reuniones del CBA , analizando las propuestas y dando posibles soluciones a través de su propia opinión , si alguien necesita un resumen traducción que me lo diga
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/06/20/morning-tip-labor-breakdown/index.html

1 respuesta

keiruga #8 Jun '11 Inocente

Vale, pero ¿A que dia y a que hora es el draft? xD

Mystee #9 Jun '11 No quiero ser mod

Día 23, pensé que lo había puesto xDDD

MrKonarski #10 Jun '11

The Timberwolves took out a full-page ad in the Star Tribune with a modified picture of Rubio in a Wolves jersey and "useful Spanish phrases" including:

• De nada - You're welcome.

• Caramba! Has visto que pasan? - Good gracious! Did you see that pass?

• Kevin Love es una maquina loca rebotes - Kevin Love is an insane rebounding machine.

Maybe Love should check that ad closely, too. Right after Rubio's arrival, Love tweeted: "Does anyone have Rosetta Stone entry level Spanish I can use?"

lolololololololololol

2 1 respuesta

mTh #11 Jun '11 Frodo Bosón

Kevin Love es una maquina loca rebotes

Awesome.

XD.

SKuLLi #12 Jun '11

Los pobres Wolves que chasco mas grande se van a llevar....

2 1 respuesta

Stoned #13 Jun '11

Buen trabajo Mystee , as allways

#12 Depende de las ganas/trabajo que le ponga ricky, es joven y puede mejorar mucho.
Minutos va a tener, ahora depende de el.

1 1 respuesta

SKuLLi #14 Jun '11

#13 Hay que tener la cabeza bien amueblada de cojones para asumir con naturalidad todo el revuelo que se ha montado con su llegada a Minnesota y todo lo que se le exigira desde el minuto 1 de la temporada. Y, la verdad, no veo a Ricky con esa mentalidad tan fuerte... y de talento va bien, pero tampoco super sobrado.

1 respuesta

GriLLo #15 Jun '11

Minutos va a tener hasta que deje de tenerlos, en la nba no existe la paciencia. Que se lo digan a Flynn elegido el número 6 del Draft.. el primer año empezó de titular jugandolo prácticamente todo, no rindió y acabo ese año saliendo desde el banco. Al año siguiente ya era suplente habitual, incluso sino recuerdo mal estuvo varias semanas en la D-League .. acabó jugando poco más de 10 minutos por partido.
Ricky la "suerte" que va a tener es que va a salir desde el banquillo, no va a tener esa presión de ser "decisivo", ya que el titular va a ser Ridnour, que aproveche sus minutos y haga buenos partidos pq sino ..

tokeh #16 Jun '11

#14 Ahí está la clave: cabeza.

Tiene condiciones y juventud suficientes como para triunfar en la NBA si le dedica mucho trabajo y se asesora correctamente. Lo dije en el otro thread y lo repito ahora mismo: que coja el ejemplo de Calderón. Aunque son bases totalmente diferentes ambos llegaron a la NBA con bastante incertidumbre sobre su rendimiento... y Calderón ha demostrado ser un currante nato.

0n1x #17 Jun '11

Madre mía, ni jugadores ni propietarios se van a bajar del carro, la cosa está negrísima.

mTh #18 Jun '11 Frodo Bosón

Pfff.

Si no hay NBA ni NFL en un año entero, en los states se monta xD.

Me tendré que empezar a poner al día del hockey me da a mi, porque del baseball paso olímpicamente.

La última vez que seguí algo de la nhl fue por el 2001 o así, que me pille un nhl de rebote para el pc y luego me puse a verlo...

Hay league pass de hockey? xD.

tokeh #19 Jun '11

Joder NHL? Con lo que me cuesta seguir la petaca esa a 200km/h..

Quita, quita.

Yo, de todas formas, si me cogen en la Universidad este año me tocará madrugar por las mañanas y empalmar con el trabajo por las tardes. Adiós trasnochar salvo en fin de semana (los que no trabaje, claro...)

De todas formas contrataré LP para ver partidos en diferido y atpc...

1 respuesta

0n1x #20 Jun '11

Pues a mí, con todo el respeto, la NHL me parece una verguenza de "deporte".

tokeh #21 Jun '11

Ricky! Ricky! Ricky!

2

mTh #22 Jun '11 Frodo Bosón

Por qué?.

Es bastante entretenido de ver a altas horas de la madrugada.

Preferiría la NFL, pero:

a) A lo mejor tampoco hay.
b) Desde navidades te tocas los pies.
c) A altas horas de la mañana los parones me dejan ko.

El baseball si que es un peñazo, aún no entiendo porque gusta tanto por aquellos lares, es que no le veo nada de nada más que aburrimiento supremo.... Y me he tragado partidos enteritos intentando verselo, que cuando el insomnio apremia y tienes que elegir entre curling, baseball y campeonatos de dardos esta la cosa ahí ahí.

1 respuesta

0n1x #23 Jun '11

#22 Entretenido es, no te lo voy a negar, pero en un juego en el que se permite la violencia y encima se incita a ella, para mí deja de ser deporte. Demasiada americanada.

1 respuesta

mTh #24 Jun '11 Frodo Bosón

#23

Pero si es lo más entretenido!!.

La nba se ha vuelto una mariconada desde que no les dejan ni protestar.

Este año no hemos tenido ninguna pelea a puñetazos ni nada, un aburrimiento.

1 respuesta

0n1x #25 Jun '11

#24

Un roce, te calientas, un empujón, unas miraditas, que si te digo, que si me dices, que si entra a la pista todo el banquillo, alguna colleja, eso mola. Una pelea como la de Auburn Hills, sobra. Y de esas se permiten todos los días allí xD

B

[Borrado] #26 Jun '11

Gran trabajo Mystee!

Espero que no haya lockout y RickyRubiorz centre la cabeza, lo absorba todo y la lie :>

Spank #27 Jun '11 Sourcerer

Muchísimo hype veo yo por parte de USA por Rubio...a ver si no sale rana...

Yo estoy con mTh, la verdad que soy más de rugby pero el hockey/fútbol americano me entretienen bastante. No como el baseball, que un día un americano me dijo que el baseball era uber divertido y que no sabía por qué veíamos fútbol, que era como ver la hierba crecer. Wat.

1 respuesta

Mystee #28 Jun '11 No quiero ser mod

Hijosdeputa decir eso del hockey ... yo como sigo las 4 majors, me da igual, yo sigo todo

llavero7 #29 Jun '11

eres un crack Mystee!te currar bien los hilos nuevos!!

travic #30 Jun '11

#27 el beisbol es la ostia, yo lo he practicado desde pequeño hasta hace unos años y aunque parezca aburrido, cuando juegas te diviertes un monton

NBA Draft '11, lockout y demás perogrulladas.

NBA Draft 2011

Collective Bargaining Agreement y el lockout

Usuarios habituales

Tags